iaLink’s interviews

June 10, 2007 in interview and article

Saving Face: A Chat with Alice Wu, Joan Chen,
Michelle Krusiec, and Lynn Chen

By Jaymie Moran, Asiance Magazine

Alice Wu is making her directorial debut in her feature film, Saving Face, a romantic comedy about a daughter, Wil (Michelle Krusiec) and mother, Ma (Joan Chen) who face unsuspecting cultural and relationship challenges. Set in Queens, New York, Wil must face the day to day challenges of her intense career, her Chinese cultural taboos and her budding relationship with Vivian (Lynn Chen). Saving Face takes you on a vulnerable journey ultimately allowing one to realize, ethnicity and gender aside, it’s never too late to fall in love for the first time. ASIANCE Magazine sat down with director Alice Wu and her entire cast to discuss the challenging roads yet magnificent breakthroughs in this landmark film.

ASIANCE: You just finished this film and you’ve been heavily promoting it. Do you love it?

Alice: I wouldn’t say I love it. I would say I’m more psyched that the film is getting out there. I’m glad the response has been so tremendous. I think my actors are much better at this. They are use to that constant attention. I wish I had enough time to talk to people who’ve come up to me. One thing about this film is that most people tend to tell me their story. What I find a little disorienting is that we just opened the San Francisco International Asian American Film Festival. We won the Audience Award there which was nice, but we sold out the Castro Theatre! It’s about 1500 seats at $25 each, which is an insanely huge audience. And then they threw this huge gala party for us after at the Asian Art Museum and it was like thousands of people. I really lasted only 40 minutes because you spend 10 seconds with this person and 10 seconds with that person. It feels so unsatisfying.

Directors are a little more introverted. You’re bombarded and I don’t feel like I’m giving adequate attention to everyone. People say, “I love your film and it’s wonderful!” But I feel like I’m not able to give it all the attention I want. It might be better if I could just sit with 5 people for 20 minutes each. I’ll have my first Press Junket.

On the surface it seems like it’s this Chinese American lesbian romantic comedy that is in half Mandarin Chinese. Like what are the chances? I always knew it was a very universal story and I always knew the more specific I made the characters the better. So it’s gratifying to see so many different people. I really feel like this is really sweet. You know people come up to me and they said they thought they’d be watching a Chinese lesbian film and they suddenly realized that they weren’t and they were watching something that really spoke to them. They would be straight and white or they would be black. That was my goal and I do think ultimately everyone just wants to love. I’m glad that’s actually connecting with people.

ASIANCE: So you are appealing to all audiences?

Alice: Yeah, but what’s weird though is that when you are writing these things, at least for me, because this was my first script, I don’t know that it even occurred to me that there would be an audience. I was one of those kids who didn’t take creative writing in college because the idea of showing my writing to anyone was just mortifying. I think if I would’ve known someone would be reading this script one day, I would’ve been paralyzed. I was writing for myself. I’m a computer scientist. I didn’t go to film school or writing school. I always read a lot when I was a kid. And I sort of wrote for myself. It’s all fictional. It comes from a deeply personal place. None of this happened but yet all the emotions are real to me. And I think that’s where writing comes from. You change the facts but the emotions are true. I think Ruth Reichl wrote one of my favorite books, which is Tender at the Bone. She has this great thing in her forward where she’s talking about various stories that happened in her life but she also says that sometimes she swaps out of her character here and there. She changes things a bit and she ultimately says that things might not be exact, ultimately everything is fictional, but things might not be completely exact but everything is true. And I think that is something how I feel about my film is that my mom is not pregnant, I didn’t grow up in NY, but all the emotions are true for me. I wrote it initially for my mom. It’s like a love letter to her because I really wanted to tell her it was never too late to fall in love for the first time. And I think that just happens to resonate with a lot of people. By the time I got to directing it, obviously at that point I knew it was for an audience, but even then I had so many people who approached me saying they LOVED this script but wanted to make it Latino…because Latino is really big, Asian is not going to sell. Or can you get rid of the gay idea? And it can’t be half in Mandarin. I was just like sorry this is what it is. This is what’s authentic for me.

ASIANCE: Who told you that?

Alice: Various producers who were interested in producing it and various studio execs. And I just said, “Look, it’s so hard to make a film. If you going to make one, you might as well make one you want to make.” It’s no easier to make one someone else wants to make than the one you want to make. And if I wanted to make money, I would’ve stayed in computer science. This for me was my labor of love.

ASIANCE: How did you find the 3 actresses Michelle, Joan and Lynn?

Alice: I spent 4 months casting. They were each just so dedicated about wanting the role. I auditioned over 1,000 people for this one. Michelle flew herself in.

I didn’t want Joan because I thought she was too young. Joan wanted to be in the movie. I love Joan but I thought she looked too young for the part. Joan presents herself as a person who is very modern, young and hip. The character needs to look like a mom. The audience needs to buy that all the decisions in this woman’s life have been made and she’s essentially living through her daughter. I needed somewhere for her to go. Joan wrote me a second time and said, “I can do this.” And I said, “If you do this, you are going to have to let me costume you because we’re not doing it through makeup.” It’s not going to be some weird makeup thing to look older. If anything it’s going to be no makeup on you and we’re just going to light you and you have to be ok with that. She was willing to do it but she did fight me the first week. She wanted to wear heels and I was like, “No, this is what you are wearing.” Now she says she’s really happy and she was glad she was costumed that way. That really helped inform her about the character and it helps the arc because otherwise if you start off thinking about oh Joan “the sexy mother”, I don’t have a story. It’s too obvious something is going to happen. At first she started sending me photos with her looking old. And I said you still look too young.

ASIANCE: What about Michelle?
Alice: She flew herself in. I really thought she was a great actress but I wanted to see everyone. She is a person who presents herself very different than Wil. So I needed to see her a few times to really see it. We had a really good rapport and I knew we would work well together. Her Mandarin wasn’t very good but I knew if she worked on it she would be fine. That woman works very hard. She really does her homework. It’s interesting because each of the actresses is very hard in the way they work and the way they want to be directed which was great for me because it really put me through my paces.

Lynn when she first walked out I said I think she might be the one. And no one believed me they said, “No, no, no you have to see this person, etc”. Now everyone is like, “Oh, she’s amazing in the role”. I think because by nature she is very girl next door. She has it in her to have that sort of regalness but what I love about Lynn is that there is a sort of intelligence and kindness there that allows the role to not just have her be some sort of babe. I think she makes that role worth it for Wil to sort of go on the journey she does.

ASIANCE: Let’s talk about filming the love scene. You shared an embarrassing story with the actors beforehand to make them feel comfortable. What was it?

Alice: I shot the whole movie in 27 days so I had no time for re-shoots. I had to be really really organized. I’m a really big believer that in sex scenes to not focus on the sex with the actors because that will make them self-conscious. Think about when you have sex you can NOT be like thinking about how this can be sexy. There will be nothing that will make it less sexy than that. I think you have to focus on the intimacy. I had 3 rehearsals with them. I really wanted to focus on letting them discover each other and fall in love with each other. I think there is a big desire to be buddy-buddy with someone immediately and I actually didn’t want my actors to do that immediately. I told them, “You know what? In the beginning I’d like you guys to just sort of discover each other.” I’d have them improv. I didn’t even have them touch the first time we met. There was a scene when one was lying on the other’s stomach. I just sort of created this sense of intimacy for them. Then I talked to them separately about the sex scene. I said, “Look, if you have any questions, ask me.” Each of them was a little nervous about it which is good because that creates tension. I just said, “I promise you that I will make it the safest environment and I promise you that this will be a scene that you will be proud of. And I will not do anything that will make you feel in anyway compromised.”

Someone pointed out one thing that was sort of interesting about that scene which is “It’s a scene of two Asian American women directed by an Asian American woman”. Like, they had not seen that. I hadn’t thought about that but I’d like to believe that there is a sexiness that arises on just how intimate it is. There is a sweetness to it.

With them on the day of, I asked that to be the first scene that was shot because I didn’t want them thinking about it all day. I cleared the set. Literally, no one could be there who wasn’t supposed to be. I had a lot of women on my crew, so that helped a lot too. And I asked for half an hour with them on the bed on the set before we shot. They were fully clothed and we sat there and I told them the story about the first time I was with a woman. And it was very funny. It made them laugh. I just said, “Would you guys rather sort of discover this or would you rather have a little bit of guidance?” And they wanted a little bit of guidance. And then I said, “OK, well what do you think is sexy about a woman?” And then one of them said, “You know, I think a woman’s back is really sexy.” So I said, “Great let’s start there”. It was kind of hilarious because it was like we were toddlers, I’m going to do this, you are going to do that. It was very funny. I just said to them separately, “This is the last time you’ll probably ever make out with a hot Asian woman so go to town”. And they totally did. We only had like 4 takes. But in between each one they had to keep each other warm under the covers. They were really sweet and so sweet with each other. And I’d like to think that they brought so much generosity and vulnerability. Like they were really in it together and I’d like to think that that comes out in the scene.

oan Chen is a Hollywood icon who has broken barriers and overcome stereotypical obstacles setting the bar high for Asian American actresses that follow. Joan left China for America in 1981 to study filmmaking, and graduated with honors from California State University, Northridge. She began her U.S. acting career in 1985, where she played leading roles in Taipan, the Academy Award-winning The Last Emperor, Blood of Heroes, Turtle Beach, Golden Gate, Heaven and Earth, and the popular David Lynch show, Twin Peaks. Ms. Chen knows a part worth playing and she was immediately attracted to Ma and believed it would be a part worth playing. ASIANCE Mag caught up with Joan on her recent trip to New York City.

ASIANCE: As a pioneer for Asian American women in media, do you think its changing?

Joan: It certainly has gotten better. There’s always room to grow. I was having my makeup done and it was too early so I was watching the CBS show, “The Larry Elder Show” and today it’s all about race, racism, and people’s racist feelings and arguments. It’s a great show. I was riveted. Obviously, it’s wonderful that people are outspoken on the show but it’s also shocking of how much racism still exists. There is certainly a lot and more effort needs to be put into it. But it’s certainly better. A LOT better!

ASIANCE: Any advice for Asian American women?

Joan: I hate to give general advice, but hmmm…what I would say to my daughter? Not to have an identity crisis or feel bad about being Chinese because I was raised in China. I try to teach my daughter more about Chinese culture, Chinese language. I feel if you understand your roots better you actually stand stronger and you won’t feel as vulnerable and easily hurt when you hear or experience racism. I think you need to understand your roots better. It helps. Basically, I don’t feel hurt in any way. Because sometimes I’ll think, “Oh I should really talk to this person. And tell him/or her about who we are. ” I think it’s the people who don’t want to be Asian and want to be white and who want to ignore their Asian roots, then they get easily hurt.

ASIANCE: Tell us about being a woman in China versus being a woman in America?

Joan: Being a woman in China has changed a lot. During the time when I was growing up during the Cultural Revolution, we were actually taught that we held up half of the sky. That we dressed and behaved exactly like boys. Sometimes, after we reached a certain age we would say, “I don’t want to do this today” And the teacher would say, “No, No, you’ve got to do it. You do exactly what boys do.” And in a sense that was really good. I had a very good upbringing as far as gender quality is concerned. Now China is a lot more opened up and there are opportunities for a lot of higher positions for women, but you see now hostesses serving kneeling down. A lot of the old fashion attitudes for Asian women actually resurfaced such as in restaurants and bars.

ASIANCE: All my male friends are still in love with you. How does that feel being an “older woman” yet still considered a sex symbol?

Joan: Oh God. I don’t know. It’s fine. (Shrugs and laughs.) I got freaked out when I was 30. For someone who never celebrates birthdays, the 30th birthday party was so huge, so huge! I got flowers from so many people and my house looked like a funeral parlor. It was as if I wasn’t going to live the next day. I thought that was going to be the end of my life. But since life continued, my life became a lot better after 30. I got married at 30. From 20-30, I was very confused and I didn’t know I was experiencing a lot of cultural shock, but I didn’t admit it. I didn’t think that way. I was very confused and very self destructive. I had a lot of angst and a lot of tortuous feelings. After 30, I somehow obtained a sense of calm.

Michelle Krusiec plays 28-year old New Yorker Wilhelmina “Wil” Pang, who’s life is a juggling act between a promising career as a surgeon and her responsibilities as a dutiful daughter. Like the #7 train she takes to visit her Chinese family on a weekly basis, Wil is perpetually in transit between her love for Ma (Joan Chen) and her budding relationship with gorgeous dancer Vivian (Lynn Chen). ASIANCE Magazine caught up with Michelle and Lynn together on their recent visit to New York City.

ASIANCE: What drew you to play Wil? Do you identify with her?

Michelle: She’s a really complicated character to understand. She’s got a lot of issues that she needs to deal with. I was drawn to her because she was sort of unusual and I never played anything quite like her. To be able to play a lead character that was so complex and dynamic in a very unusual way that was the draw for me.

I really identify with the relationship between Wil and Ma. My mother is an immigrant and the thing that you discover with immigrant parents is that they come to America and they want to give you the opportunity to live the life they were not able to live or live the life that they themselves sacrificed to provide for you. For me, I really understand the compulsion as a child to try to live up to your parents’ expectations because they have done so much for you. And I also understand that growing up in an American society, there is this idea of individuality and expression and artistic ideas that have nothing to do with practicality and making money and some of the other values that you find in the Asian culture. So for me, I could always identify with being torn and ultimately this is what this film sort of focuses on; how do you balance your roots with the life you ultimately want to live.

ASIANCE: Alice said, “Michelle is a talented actress but someone who presents herself differently than Wil.” And I understand you were starting to pick up Alice’s mannerisms to incorporate her into Wil?

Michelle: Yeah, I really didn’t know what I was going to do with Wil. I figured I’d meet with Alice, we’d start rehearsing and I’d discover that process. When I met Alice at our table discussions, I understood that she was writing from a very personal point of view and I noticed that she had a lot of very specific mannerisms. I started stealing those and used her as my muse really because they were great and unusual quirks. I don’t think she realized I started doing that until people started pointing it out to her.

Lynn Chen made her debut on the stage of The Metropolitan Opera House in a ballet featuring Russian dancer Rudolf Nuruyev. She worked steadily between The Metropolitan and NYC Opera House for three years, during which she landed the role of “Ngana” in the Broadway revival of “South Pacific.” Lynn decided to focus on her education and attended Wesleyan University in CT. She couldn’t stay away for long, however. After a few years working as a waitress, a teacher, and an administrative assistant, she decided to pursue a professional acting career. Lynn has most recently appeared in guest spots on NBC’s “Law & Order,” “Law & Order: SVU,” and in the recurring role of pre-med student “Regina” on ABC’s “All My Children.”

ASIANCE: You just finished this film and you’ve been heavily promoting it. Do you love it?

Lynn: Just in general when you are given a script and it’s a leading role, for an actor at my stage, you take whatever you can get but I was very fortunate that Vivian was this amazing character. I really wanted to fight for her to get this role, because when I initially went in for it, after I read the script with each call back I wanted it even more. I lost like pounds for the role because I wanted it so bad even before I was cast. When I was, it wasn’t until a few weeks before we started. I already had the whole script memorized; I had read it so many times. I loved it. I was a little obsessed with it.

ASIANCE: Alice says, “By nature she is very girl next door regalness but what I love about Lynn is that there is a sort of intelligence and kindness there that allows the role to not just have her be some sort of babe.” What’s your take?

Lynn: It’s funny because when I first went in to audition I saw Vivian completely different than Alice did. I saw her as this sweaty ballet dancer who came in right from practice who was funky crazy. And Alice said, “Oh no no no. She’s composed. She wears Marc Jacobs. She’s from the Upper East Side. ” Then I was like, “Oh, Oh I get it. So I had to rethink it. But I think that confidence part that I brought into it initially is probably something that she saw. A confidence but a sort of approachability.

ASIANCE: Let’s talk about the love scene. Any awkward moments?

Michelle: There was an awkward moment which I saved Lynn from.

Lynn: Oh yeah, go ahead.

Michelle: We were trying to prevent each others’ nipples from being on the screen for too long (laughs). We were doing some lines and I think we both realized our nipples would clearly be in the scene the entire time. But it so happened that it was Lynn’s nipples, so I covered her nipples.

Lynn: Yeah. She’s really nice. (laughs)

Michelle: But very naturally if you notice or don’t notice to prevent any more shame brought onto us. (Laughs)

Lynn: Thank you.

Michelle: No, actually, Alice would kill us if she heard us. (Laughs) We actually went through a very specific process and we had a few things we shared about each other just do create intimacy and we kind of choreographed it lightly, but really it wasn’t manipulated. Because we had our own sort of apprehensions based on whatever, I think that sort of led to the chemistry.

ASIANCE: Do you think the roles for Asian American women in media are changing? Do you have a long way to go?

Lynn: I think its getting better. I don’t think there is a long, long way to go. I think within a couple of years, it’s going to move pretty fast just because I’m seeing so many more Asian American directors that are coming out right now. They are writing responsibly and casting responsibly, by which I mean utilizing the pool of Asian talent that’s out there because no one else is really. But at the same time I’ve noticed this pilot’s season the Asian roles haven’t been as stereotypical as I have experienced in the past.

Michelle: I’m always torn because I think there is the desire out there with the network and the studios to cast ethnically responsibly. I think the desire is there to cast ethnics in all roles but I don’t know if it actually gets executed. I think when it comes down to it there still needs to be a lot of progress that needs to be made. I don’t want to be skeptical because I think it’s a bad way to sort of approach this business. I’m much more hopeful and ambitious but I think like Lynn said, it can’t just happen on all levels. It can’t just be actors. It’s got to be writers, directors and executives. It’s got to be in a way that sort of infiltrates all elements of the business. It can’t just be one group of people. That’s where I think needs improvement. I do see progress in that capacity.

ASIANCE: Any advice for Asian American women?

Lynn: For women in general I think it’s really important to really know yourself and to listen to yourself and to execute what your feelings are. I used to teach sex ed. The people I’d be teaching with would say certain things and then act a completely different way. I’d say, “Do you really believe what you are teaching?” A lot of them really found it hard to practice what they preach and really found it hard to stick with what they believe in everyday life. I think that’s really difficult for women in general.

I think being an Asian American woman today; it’s hard because you don’t want to be pigeonholed. You don’t want people to think that you’re defined by your ethnicity but at the same time you don’t want to ignore it. I don’t know how that relates to sex ed. (laughs)

Michelle: It all relates to sex ed (laughs)

Lynn: I guess not stereotyping. …ok this is how it relates to sex ed. (laughs) A lot of things that people have problems with like in terms of condom use, etc. is that they think, “oh I don’t fit into that mold” I’m not like that. I think it’s similar to race relations because you think, “Oh I’m not like that Chinese person, I’m not like that Japanese person, so I can’t relate to that”. I think it’s important to listen to yourself and listen to what other people are saying and then try to act accordingly.

Michelle: I see a lot of criticism within the culture that is both inflicted on oneself and on each other. I think if we take the focus off of that and heighten more of what’s going to make an individual happy I think within that process will ultimately create unity and then a society of that will be honoring the individual and then honoring the group and the community. I think that has to happen before progress can really and truly be made. It’s like the film, if you really don’t come to terms with what you want and what’s going to make you happy and you confront those issues you’ll never be able to effect change or progress or effect happiness on someone else.

Jaymie Moran is the CEO and founder of ASIANCE Magazine.
www.asiancemagazine.com